Show notes:

Come meet our online vegan cooking school My Brownble

Rick's post in Alcoholics Anonymous Cleveland on "those other people"

An article on Dialectical Behavior Therapy

An article on self determination theory

When it comes to sitting around that beautiful Holiday table, something happens when we're surrounded by people who love us, where the invisible adult line called independence and autonomy is blurred, wiped out somehow, and all topics seem like fair game. As vegans we need to deal with conversations about why we aren't eating the non-vegan apple pie and what's the difference if you just have "a little butter", navigate questions about grass fed beef, animals who are treated well, mom and pop farms, and the carnivore diet. If you're in recovery from an eating disorder or disordered eating you may have to listen to people talking about their exercise regimes and what diet they're on. If you're just a regular human, you may have to navigate comments on your single status, or your childless or child free status, your child raising ways, your job status, how your body has changed. Mix a large family gathering with some extended family you haven't seen in a while, alcohol, traditions and especially food traditions, and you'll find yourself in conversations around the table where you might need a few skills that run along a spectrum of brushing it off, to a little grace and understanding, to a big dose of boundary setting. This is what we'll be talking about in today's post and episode, how to set boundaries in conversations around the Holidays, whether these surround the topics of being vegan, or any other life choice or change.

When we're in these conversations, with our loved ones, it might feel like love and concern, sometimes just filter-less banter, to you it might just feel uncomfortable, like your shoes suddenly became one size smaller, your clothes a few inches tighter, and no matter how you shift and move around, you feel that there is no escaping the discomfort of some of these conversations. The ones that come dressed in the nice Christmas sweater of "care", but that can either be full of distance, criticism, or invasive curiosity, "gotcha" questions and more, precisely at a time that can be emotionally charged to a lot of us.

In the past, I have lived through uncomfortable Holiday gatherings where people chose the dinner table to discuss my being vegan, and although they are the ones that brought it up are extremely defensive about it. I have had friends who are single sit around the Holiday table with all eyes on them, and their love lives on a serving platter being passed around like the mashed potatoes. On some occasions talks around the table have centered around commenting on people's bodies, how they should eat, how they need to be eating more, or not have a second helping, how the way they eat is wrong, or perfectly right and all other ways completely incorrect. We've had distant relatives ask why we don't have kids as if they were asking us to pass the gravy, and others asking those with one kid when they plan on having the second, or the third. 

I used to spend so much time complaining and wondering why people spoke without a filter, or why they couldn't ask more personal questions in a different setting. This always kept me stuck and in a loop, with an expectation that at some point people had to realize that with the changing of the times some kind of a filter was appropriate, that some comments should be off limits. Then I realized that when these moments happened, staying in the "did you really just ask me that question?" banter inside my head got me nowhere, unless I used the emotion of anger, worry, sadness or surprise I felt bubble up, as the fuel for setting a limit. Sometimes the limit would be external, summoning my inner Gandalf the Gray marking a  "you shall not pass" line in the sand. Sometimes the limit would be internal, part wound licking, part big dose of the reminders of what made me, me, and why I had made a certain choice.

What started to happen was astounding. I started navigating these conversations better and better, I improved my debating skills, I stopped policing people's language and instead learned that sometimes the other persons's intention was not the intention I assigned to them. Most important of all, I learned that anything that triggered me could be dealt with, with a little dose of boundary setting, a sense of humor, developing a bit of a thicker skin, lots of wisdom from the Stoics, and working hard on boosting that good old self esteem.

When we have a different life, when we make different choices, when we follow the road less travelled, we are bound to get moments around the dinner table in which it feels like some kind of a spotlight has been pointed down on us until it's the next person's turn, and the Holidays especially, can feel like a minefield. 



Regardless of what that great divide is for you and your loved ones, boundary setting by being as honest as you can about the journey you've been on, will help so much in protecting your space, your choices, your autonomy and even your privacy. Whether that great divide is the fact that you're an ethical vegan and they are not, or the fact that you are on a different journey when it comes to the way you eat (veganism aside), whether they have a dream for what your life was going look like and you've chosen a different path for yourself, or life has taken you down a different path because of circumstances.

I titled this episode and post Holiday survival kit, and so with that in mind, you can't have a good first aid kit without some bullet points and concise and applicable tips and reminders. I want to share some  reminders I always use to help me in navigating these difficult conversations:

A reminder for those without a filter

Even when a topic has come up dozens of times, don't assume the worst right off the bat. The attributions we make on why someone is saying something are often so off base we might as well be speaking a different language. If a tough conversation bubbles up, remember there are so many different kinds of people in this world. Some people have a thought and not a second passes before it leaves their lips, unable to gobble it back up until they realize what they've just said, it doesn't come from bad intentions, but rather a thought. How many of those do you have in a day? For some, that filter that makes you say to yourself "what a strange thing to think", only happens post verbalization, and if this is the case for someone in your life, remember that when they say something that crossed a boundary or you were hurt by, it's more so a "brainstorming" moment, a person shouting out the next prompt at an open mic improv, rather than thought out commentary.

Practice a little emotional regulation before you answer

Straight from the wisdom of dialectical behavior therapy (as well as mindfulness), taking a pause before engaging is so helpful to help you manage your intense emotions first. It's totally okay to say "I just need to think for a moment before I answer or explain this". In that brief pause, you have space. Space to not make rapid fire attributions based on your fears or misconceptions, and you have space to perhaps add another tool, and it is to try to create a bit of distance. Even if it's mom, or dad, or your partner's friend who always seems to rub you in a weird way, put on a filter of "nothing". I love my filter analogies, putting a layer onto your experience as if you were swapping out a pair of sunglasses. With this tip, you're essentially removing all the layers of years of engagement you've had with this person, can you ask yourself "how would I explain this to someone I don't really know that well, that might be legitimately curious but maybe didn't know how to express that in the best way?". A pause is always good. 

Dialectical behavior therapy offers so many tools like dialoguing to help you navigate anything that might linger within you, post engagement. Anything that might feel uncomfortable, any conflicting thoughts you're having after a difficult interaction. By using this tool you're essentially having a dialogue on paper between two conflicting sides of you. You can also write down the facts of the situation, and see them as separate but as valid as your emotions in a situation, the thoughts you had during the interaction and post interaction, the things you can't change about the situation and the things you can. Everything gets written out and it's much clearer to see when you have it on paper in front of you, it will help you navigate similar conversations and moments like these in the future, and it will help you soothe anything that might be feeling uncomfortable after a difficult interaction. We'll be exploring more of these incredible DBT tools soon.

You can walk away politely

Remember that you can walk away. Not in a rude way, but find a brief moment in which you can excuse yourself and remove yourself from a conversation you just don't feel is appropriate.

You can use humor

Use humor to fill that boundary line back in, in a way that doesn't bring the conversation to a record scratch halt, but that let's the other person know that some topics need to be talked about with more respect. Sometimes as vegans we're at the receiving end of so many jokes (some need to be laughed at and brushed off), but since we all have our limits, and some friends just won't quit, often the jokesters need a joke back to understand that it's getting old. 

You can simply not engage

You are more than entitled to sit there politely listen, and then say... "hmmm... aaanyway.... what's everyone doing for New Years?". Sometimes nothing gets the message across than a non answer, I love engaging in conversation and having great debates, but when a comment comes my way that's crossing the line into rude, this clear change of subject does the trick in saying, without words, I'm not going into this with you.

Knowledge from AA

I'm not in the program but have known wonderful people for whom it was life changing, and so many of the small snippets of wisdom we hear on a day to day basis come from the big book, including perhaps one of the most pertinent ones when it comes to boundary setting within your inner self: "other people's opinions of me are none of my business", with the caveat and understanding that it is only human to constantly need this reminder, because we are first and foremost social animals where the need for acceptance and belonging is incredibly powerful and motivating. In looking into this further (I have always been fascinated with the teachings and principles of AA), I came across this text by someone, let's call him Rick, that summed it up so beautifully: 

"In cases where a person crosses my boundaries and I see no way of rectifying the problem, I can quietly withdraw from that situation without being critical of that other person. I also concluded that I am not a mind reader (imagine that) and that nothing good can come from a mixture of my faulty thinking and their faulty thinking. I need only to be understanding and caring. It is not necessary that they reciprocate. I am no longer threatened by what other people think or say about me. That’s in the hands of something much greater than me. The People that “know me well”, know me well, and that’s more than enough for me."

I loved the part that stated "that's in the hands of something much greater than me", it can be religious or non denominational, but the idea that some things don't belong in our nitpicking and analytical brains , is to me, quite a relief. We can just let them go.

Start with "I thought that too, but..."

The magic beginning lines of any good debate, when you do want to share your point of view and you notice commonalities between an older version of yourself and the person sitting across from you. It comes in handy when discussing vegan issues because for most of us, a humbling and important reminder is that we were once there too, sometimes more recently than we care to remember. It also reminds people of the beautiful nature of change that is at everyone's reach. We can think one way at certain moments in our lives, and those views can be transformed.

It's the second cousin to:

"I appreciate that this is your perspective, but..."

Take a page from self-determination theory (which we've indirectly talked about when we've discussed intrinsic and extrinsic motivation in past episodes) which is so great when trying to build skills of autonomy and competence while still acknowledging that we need connection and belonging. Say "I appreciate that this is your perspective, but I see things in a different way AND..."

- it's okay if we disagree

- I'm trying things a little differently

- I need to go through this in my own terms

... and my personal favorite, an important reminder in today's divided age:

- I see things a little differently, AND we can still be friends.

It's a way to both cement your place in relationship with that person, and assert your point of view, and your sense of autonomy. 

If all else fails, let your vulnerability come through

Although it doesn't usually take just one mention or conversation, talking about our own difficulties, issues, vulnerabilities, or past, from the heart, is sometimes the only way to truly set a boundary that will be respected. 

When it comes to our way of eating and our past or present relationship with food, these boundaries can be something like this:

An example for all of our listeners who are in recovery: "You know, the reason why I don't like to to talk about this is that I actually struggled with food a lot in my past, I am now in recovery from that but it's still hard to have some of these conversations, do you mind if we talk about something else?"

"I know you have your own way of eating that might work for you, but I love eating in this way and I have finally found peace with food after a long history of a messy relationship with it so would you mind if we talked about something else? I was actually going to ask you about...  (your dog/hobby/recent vacation, etc)"

"I know you have thoughts about the way I eat and that my way of eating has changed. I know it sparks up a lot of conversation and jokes, and I'm happy to answer questions if you're really interested, but it's okay if you and I eat differently from each other, I'm going down my own path and it's been what has felt right for me"

"I know you mean well and are concerned about me, but please know that I'm doing okay and I am finding my own way, the best way you could help me right now is by being patient and accepting me as I am, and sharing time with me where the focus isn't on weight and my body or my food, I have to go at this at my own pace (or, I have professionals who are helping me, I have a treatment team, etc)"

When it comes to concerns about other aspects of our lives, these boundaries can be something like this:

"Everything's fine with me, I'm enjoying the way my life is right now, but you know it's always hard being the only single person/ person with no kids/person with one kid and having the same conversation at every gathering when there are so many different cool things about my life, tell me how you're doing..."

Setting boundaries in conversations is one of the hardest things to do, and yes, it can sometimes make others uncomfortable for a brief moment. It is also true that we are responsible for managing and navigating the emotional reaction we have after we're engaging openly with the world, and I for one am not a fan of policing other people's language or right to say their peace, but setting boundaries and practicing this skill is hugely important and you have a right to that as much as they do to share their opinions. When it comes from vulnerability, from our own stories, with a clear line, people will soon start realizing that certain topics just won't fly, no matter how good their intentions, and what we can have conversations about instead.

It is also an important reminder that no matter what happens, or what gets triggered, you can also walk away, and in the aftermath, there is also a way back to a better place within yourself, when you step back into the tools that are helping you, and it always starts with self compassion, a warm and comforting self talk to heal the wound, recognize why it hurt, that many others would have reacted in the same way, and we can then remember why this journey has been important and why it's worth it to continue.

We can also take a page from the handling criticism handbook and use any opportunity to see if anything hidden behind the parts that might have been hurtful, have a little truth to them. Ask yourself if there's something else behind your loved ones words that is really what's bothering them? Ask yourself if there's any kernel of truth or a learning opportunity for you within this uncomfortable moment.

We also need to give a little shoutout to the ultimate secret weapon when it comes to boundary setting and especially to not taking everything personally, and that is self-esteem. We could have countless episodes on self-esteem alone, and no tip list can help you with the secret of building it up (this could be a full on goal for therapy all on its own) but for now, a little reminder of one of the building blocks (or maintenance blocks) of self-esteem: self care. Not in the instagram, bubble bath and face mask version of self care, but self care in the broader sense, in the psychological sense, of building a relationship with yourself that is full of understanding, where you have learned the tough skill of prioritizing yourself even in a busy season, where you have tools to work through your emotions, where you have outlets and interests, and time and space where you're fully in relationship with you, getting to know yourself, affirming the things that you like, enjoy and don't enjoy. These are the moments and daily actions that start building up that self-esteem even while you're not aware of it, because you can quickly know and tell when a line has been crossed, and the reasons why things are important to you are always so present, your motivations are so present. You eventually reach the point where it isn't hard to stay in your lane even when pointed at or criticized, as if someone had questioned whether you love your dog, or your child, such an absurd critique for most people that a comment like that is easily and safely put aside without a second glance.

Last but not least, remember that this season, this time of year, can be challenging when we have difficult relationships, but it can also be full of fun, joy, light moments, delicious food, fun gifts, go to your gathering with an open heart and expecting a fun and special moment, half of the battle is won when we don't arrive with preconceived ideas of how tough it might be, a question becomes just a question, a comment was sometimes just a thought said out loud, and our stance and views have their firm ground to stand on.